The RPGnet Interview

Shannon Appelcline: How did you get involved with the RuneQuest game in the first place?

Lawrence Whitaker: It was 1982 I'd been playing Basic D&D for about a year and heard much about the AD&D 'Dungeon Master's Guide'. I was about 15 or so, and I had some birthday money, and trotted off to 'Games', the only dedicated games store in my nearest town, to buy a copy. It was a huge disappointment. Not only was it not a book of advice for Dungeon Masters, it was also useless without the Players' Handbook, and I couldn't afford that, too. So, I took the book back to the store ad exchanged it for the Games Workshop boxed edition of RuneQuest which, the guy behind the counter informed me, was a complete game, was far better, and allowed everyone to use magic.

He wasn't wrong. RQ was a much better game: its mechanics made sense, it was skill-based, and seemed far more realistic without all this alignment and armour class nonsense. I can't say I was completely taken with Glorantha, but the game mechanics certainly had me. What's more, I learned that the 'Stormbringer' game (I was - am - a huge Moorcock fan) was by the same people and used the RQ system. For me, there was no looking back, and I haven't played Dungeons and Dragons in any form, to any extent, since returning that DMG and swapping it for RQ.

Pete Nash: My initial experience with RuneQuest is similar to Loz's. I was drawn into Roleplaying games via the wonderful Fighting Fantasy books in 83 and had been playing D&D for a year or so when one of my friends turned up with the very same Games Workshop version of RQ2, frothing with enthusiasm!

I was immediately captivated by the diversity of skills, freedom from character class, added 'realism' and the wonderful Rurik's Saga. Already a lover of mythology, I was also gripped by the ancient tone of the setting, thanks to Luise Perrin's evocative art. I spent hours pouring through that book, absorbing every detail. Then rolled up a character who lasted a few sessions before dying. Sadly unlike Loz, I became disillusioned with the lower survival rate and inability to increase Hit Points and thus we all returned to D&D.

Despite a few forays into Call of Cthulhu and Stormbringer, I didn't return to RuneQuest and Glorantha until the latter half of the eighties, whereupon I saw that my problem had been one of play-style rather than a flawed rules system. At which point I fell in love with the game (with all its associated d100 systems), and have never regretted it since. I still play other games of course, diversity being the spice of life and all that, but I always return back to RuneQuest as my go-to system.

SA: What led you from playing RuneQuest to being involved with RuneQuest professionally?

LW: I began freelancing for Chaosium way back in 1985/86 with a submission for the Ringworld RPG - although, technically, I never wrote or submitted any RuneQuest material for them either when the license was with Chaosium or with Avalon Hill. That work led into further work on the Stormbringer/Elric line, and so my involvement with Basic Roleplaying has been quite extensive.

RQ specifically though, came when I joined the staff at Mongoose Publishing in 2007. Their first edition of the game had been out for a few months and I joined the company as they prepared to release the Elric sourcebook - it was, in fact, my first project for them. Of all the writers on the team at that time, I had the most experience with RQ and BRP, and over the course of my time there, I became the de-facto line manager for the RQ brand, working on most of the lines they had supported by the system.

PN: My involvement was rather more roundabout. I was a latecomer to professional RPG writing, but had dabbled in bits and pieces, mostly creating short articles or refining other's house rules. When Loz was granted the opportunity to revise the Mongoose version of RuneQuest, he invited me on board to help overhaul the system; as we had worked closely together on other projects before and seemed to synchronise well together.

Soon after a full time staff writer's position opened up at Mongoose, which Loz suggested I apply for. On the strength of the success of Mongoose RuneQuest 2 and my previous work BRP Rome (which I originally wrote for Chaosium), I was granted the job near the end of 2009. Although I wrote supplements for several other game systems, the majority of my assignments were focussed on RuneQuest.

SA: When Mongoose licensed RuneQuest, they more or less rebooted the game system, all before you guys came on board. Looking back, what were your favorite updates that originated in Matthew Sprange's RuneQuest revision?

LW: For me, character creation. Although it wasn't radically different to previous versions, I thought the first edition of Mongoose's game did a good job of simplifying the earlier system and neatly tied culture and profession into the process. I also liked the basing of skills on the sum of a couple of characteristics. This made sense, put the characteristics to work, and was far simpler than previous editions' reliance on complex calculations for skill category bonuses. It also made it much easier to create non-human characters. Previously, base skills percentages had to be determined according to species needs; with this system, it worked exactly the same as for humans, which is a good thing.

Separating skills into Basic and Advanced was a good idea too, trimming the skill list on the character sheet considerably.

There are other things I really liked too. Losing General Hit Points and introducing the Persistence and Resilience skills as tests for resisting psychological and physical damage. Combat Actions also created an economy that helped manage combat, and went someway towards reducing how long combats take - an issue with previous editions, especially with higher-skilled characters. Fatigue, too, was a good system that removed the strenuous book-keeping found in the Avalon Hill edition.

In all, Mongoose's first pass at RQ was a good attempt to retain the flavour of the earlier games whilst introducing new concepts found in other systems of the time. Some concepts were flawed, some unplaytested, and some incongruous. It attracted criticism for trying to make RQ more like 3rd edition D&D, but I don't think that was ever a design aim and more a reflection of the primary influences on the design team at that time. Matthew's on record somewhere as saying that MRQ1 was 'written by committee' and that shows in some places. But there were a lot of new features that worked well, were simple, and made the game easier to explain and use.

PN: I think Loz has summed up the beneficial rule developments, although my opinions of MRQ1 overall are less charitable.

SA: Going into your RuneQuest II work with Mongoose, what were your main goals?

LW: First and foremost was to rectify the clear problems with combat and magic. MRQ1 had created a vast amount of confusion that couldn't be easily patched or made clear with errata. This applied mostly to combat although there were also some issues with magic. Combat was a mess: confusing, uninspired and broken. We'd already worked out a new system for combat and knew it would be a vast improvement - but it couldn't just be grafted-on. It would need a rewrite of the rules to fully integrate it.

The biggest issue with magic was the idea of physical runes that could be collected, integrated, and used to power 'rune magic' spells. Whilst not a terrible idea in principle, it simply didn't fit with Glorantha at all. I encountered this when writing some of the Gloranthan supplements for the game, having to actively rewrite magic to ensure that I could make the magic systems work with canon.

The second priority was to expand MRQ1's potential. As I've mentioned, the system did quite a lot things right, or in the right way, and we wanted to realise that potential which wasn't fully exploited.

The third priority was to unify the mechanics so that certain sub-systems, such as higher magic, worked in broadly similar ways (although with different skills being used to govern cause, effect and power level). Again, this was a legacy of the 'designed by committee' approach of MRQ1: the three higher forms of magic - Divine, Sorcery and Spirit - had many good ideas, but very different implementation methods. We knew this could be streamlined and so set-out to apply the same philosophy to the rest of the game.

Also we wanted to break the notion that MRQ1 had been 'D&Dified'. We never thought that was true, although there was a prevailing belief that it was an intentional design element to capture 3.5 edition players. We actually kept many of the concepts that led to that belief, but curiously MRQII was never subject to the same accusations.

Finally, Pete and I, as long-time RQ and BRP players and GMs, had a lot of ideas about the sort of game MRQ should have been, and we set out to intentionally pursue that vision. We had a remit to maintain backwards compatibility as far as possible, but otherwise carte blanche to re-engineer the system. We tried to make the most of that opportunity, but time and page constraints cut a lot of it short. This led, inevitably, to RQ6.

PN: You've summed up our whole approach very nicely, although you did leave out the part about our R&D sessions during long dog-walks...

SA: That brings us to the present. How did you two go from working at Mongoose on MRQII to creating your own company to publish your own edition of the game?

PN: If I recall correctly, Loz and several other friends were visiting me here in Sweden for our annual week-long PeteCon, when in a burst of inebriated passion, he declared his intent to purchase the RuneQuest license and very kindly asked if I would come aboard. My ego wonderfully massaged by his erudite compliments concerning my rules design and writing prowess, I foolishly agreed.

The next morning when we were all sober, it still seemed like a good idea so we went ahead with it. So it was all down to good company, some excellent roleplaying sessions and a bottle of wine. However, my memories might be a bit fuddled.

Since then Loz has worked like a demon to set up the company, webpages, organise all the printing and distribution deals as well as write half the system and do all the layout; whilst I've taken all the easy parts like proofreading and running the playtests. We're still best of friends, so things seem to be functioning well, despite my irreverent opinions...

LW: Yes, it sort of happened as Pete describes it. The gathering at his place in Northern Sweden was where the idea hatched although, at that point it was purely speculative as the license hadn't reverted to Issaries at that stage. We were musing on what could be done with RQ and I think I said that, if I owned the rights to it, I'd make all sort of changes, and it spiralled from there.

Later, when the rights DID become available, Pete and I talked it over in a soberly state and agreed to form a company to do the thing properly. Greg Stafford at Issaries was a little nervous of taking a gamble on RQ with a brand new company and I had to do a lot of work to convince him of our ability. This meant a formal business plan, sales projections, sales returns and so on. There was a great deal of discussion before he agreed to our proposal, and he certainly made us work for it!

Finally though, we had agreement and Design Mechanism was born.

Taking a few steps back though, the transition from Mongoose was a tough decision to make. I left the company in October 2010. I'd moved to Canada the previous year, and although my intention was to focus on writing, a business contact from my UK days made me a job offer that I just couldn't turn down. I'd been doing contract consultancy work whilst still with Mongoose, but this new job in Canada was full time and too good to refuse. I knew that I'd struggle with writing commitments and so handed in my resignation to Mongoose. I didn't regret it. I'd had 3 years of working on some great projects and I was feeling jaded about the writing process. That break between finishing with the company and meeting up at Pete's place helped me refocus and energise again!

SA: You went from MRQII to RQ6 in something less than two years. What made you feel like you could do another useful revision and expansion of the same game in such a short time?

PN: Actually its more like two and a half years, but that period seems like a lifetime to me.

There were a number of reasons Loz and I felt we could improve upon our previous work.

To start with, during the design of MRQII we were originally granted an unlimited page count to ensure we produced a complete game. So we began writing the core rules with the expectation we'd come back and pad out each chapter with examples and guidance. Unfortunately our page allowance was sequentially cut three or four times, until all too soon what we'd already written exceeded the permitted size of the book. So instead we had to trim more and more content until what was left was exceedingly lean, the Spirit Magic rules being a prime example of such a casualty.

Now to be fair, the rules as written are excellent for Game Masters who can instinctively utilise their inherent flexibility and have iron control over their players... but not all GMs have that level of confidence or experience. So part of RQ6 has been to grant firmer guidance and support, whilst also promoting the use of imagination. Some purchasers have bewailed the addition of such clutter, although without much understanding of our objective to be both comprehensive and inclusive.

Secondly, I personally was never happy with MRQII's art, layout, and poor editorial quality. Loz can probably tell you that I lost my rag when we realised our entire batch of final proof reading corrections never made it into the book, due to an 'oversight'. Most of the subsequent errata were actually things we'd already trapped and corrected. Sadly, these problem areas were never fixed by the company despite multiple times Loz and I both raised the issue with Mongoose; an artefact of their rapid publishing schedule and one which eventually aided my decision to leave the company.

Of course its an impossible job to catch all errors, but part of our desire to produce RQ6 was to ensure it was full of art which we liked, with a layout which we selected, using a manuscript which was heavily playtested, properly proofed and professionally edited. Much to our chagrin and hubris, there still were a few bugs that slipped through, yet we like to think they're pretty minimal considering our final page count!

Thirdly there were a number of rules refinements we wanted to incorporate. Nearly two years of active play by countless groups had revealed some areas where the rules needed tightening to clarify interpretation and prevent abuse. In addition there were some aspects of the MRQII rules neither of us particularly liked, but had preserved from MRQI to ensure backwards compatibility. Launching our own version released us from that necessity, so we had creative freedom to burn our legacy bridges.

Fourthly we could break away from the indelible influence of Glorantha. Now no insult to one of the finest RPG worlds ever created, but the RuneQuest magic systems were very badly shackled to that particular world (often alienating potential players), yet Loz and I could see the inherent ability of using RuneQuest for any fantasy or sword and sandal style of setting. Hell we've both been doing that for years. So we deliberately broke those mechanistic bonds to encourage greater flexibility, something which will immediately leap to mind when reading the introductory chapter on Magic in the book.

With the addition of a fifth magic type, the rules can pretty much mimic any genre's supernatural powers; something which will make the game system far more adaptable. For example I use RQ6 to run Star Wars adventures, using the Mysticism rules to handle Force powers. We have a lot of setting books in the pipeline, from historical supplements to science fiction - and yes - we will still be providing support for Glorantha material.

Last and by no means least, we wanted to release a version of RuneQuest which would be fully self contained, without need for indeterminable splat books to make it playable. RQ6 is a stand alone game which can run pretty much any fantasy orientated genre out of the box. It has a comprehensive range of spells, creatures, spot rules and a surfeit of gaming guidance. Even the examples throughout the book are written in such a way to show a Game Master how easy and permissible it is to create your own settings or tweak the rules to work in support of a game, rather than hinder it. Well, that was our intention anyway. Hopefully we achieved it!

LW: As I've said before, MRQII wasn't the game we necessarily wanted to produce. Page count and playtesting was curtailed and we had to chop a fair amount out of the final submission. Some editing errors also crept-in and, although we were pleased with the game, we knew it could have been so much more.

For example, the limits imposed on page count went from 'whatever you want' to 256 pages and then down to 200 quite rapidly. That meant jettisoning large parts of the manuscript and revising some quite carefully thought-through elements.

Once we knew that we were fully in control, we went back to the drawing board and looked at everything from MRQII - much as we did with MRQ1 - keeping what worked, revising things that needed it, and adding back in material we were forced to cut. We also didn't need to keep RQ6 as backward compatible with MRQII, so could do some things, like character creation, more as we wanted to do them.

RQ6 is what MRQII would've been had we not been so constrained. Plus, and it's a big plus, we simply didn't want the RuneQuest brand to die just because Mongoose were no longer the licensee. We knew that they would rebrand MRQII, as is their right, but given the resurgent support for RQ since 2006, it would've been a huge shame to see the brand fall back into the stupor it had found itself in during the 1990s. Doing justice to RQ was a paramount aim, as we say in the introduction to RQ6.

SA: I found the new Mysticism system that Pete mentioned to be quite evocative. It was one of the things that really caught my eye when I read the rules. I'm surprised you say that was part of breaking away from Glorantha, as I immediately thought, "Ah ha! That's the magic system for the dragonewts and the East, which has always been missing from RuneQuest".

LW: Pete developed Mysticism originally for the Gwenthia shared world project we were involved with. The form it's in now if somewhat different to that original draft, but we both really like how its developed. It certainly wasn't part of 'breaking away from Glorantha' with RQ6, and Mysticism will definitely be included in any Glorantha works we do because, as you say, it really fits with dragonewts and some of the other mystical traditions. In fact, I wish I'd spent the time developing Mysticism to replace the (rather uninspired) draconic magic that was part of Mongoose's original take on Draconic Mysticism for its first Second Age Glorantha books.

SA: One of the other things that really struck me about RQ6 was how much it felt like a kit, particularly in the magic sections which leave open even really basic questions, like how you gain magic points. I can see how this goes toward the goal Pete mentioned of using RuneQuest in any fantasy setting, but I can also see it leaving GMs a little at sea if they didn't have specific plans for their campaigns. Any comments on this balance?

PN: Ah yes, this is a perennial problem when trying to divorce a well tested rules system away from the rigid structure of a specific game setting. There needs to be some balance in how such inherent flexibility is presented to the reader. Too little alienates potential customers who don't like the base premise. Too much causes confusion and lack of clear direction. On the whole we restricted options to a specific handful of core rules, places where a rule revision might have proved to be very unpopular, and as you rightly pointed out, the magic systems.

Magic especially is one of those thorny areas because it can vary so dramatically between settings making it impossible for a one size fits all approach. We tried to address this with offering a comprehensive range of selections to choose from, advice on the implications of such choices, and further bolstered with on-running examples in the side bars: namely the GM's Saga when designing how magic works in the world, and Anathaym's, Mju's, Katos' and Kara's Saga to show examples of how each magical tradition can be tweaked.

The intent was to provoke excitement and inspiration, rather than leave readers a 'little at sea' and on the whole I think we succeeded. However, our experiences with writing a range of books across several different game systems has shown us that people are very diverse in mental attitude, often frustratingly so. It is impossible to satisfy everyone.

So yes, we occasionally receive enquiries concerning 'what is the correct way to...' which we do our best to answer. In truth there is no wrong or right way, the Game Master merely requires the confidence to take that first step. As we state in the introduction 'Your RuneQuest will vary'. Once this concept is grasped most have a moment of brief enlightenment then run with their new found sense of liberation.

Game Masters should find RQ6's built in options actually give them a sense of 'official sanction' to make the modifications they would naturally have house ruled into their own campaigns anyway. Those few who really do feel like they are standing on quicksand, will probably take comfort after they see how Loz and I twist and abuse the rules in forthcoming supplements; utilising our innovations as templates to apply to their own game worlds - assuming of course they don't just play with published material.

LW: Pete's neatly captured the direction we wanted to take with RQ, but I have a few more things to add.

The minute you write down a rule or mechanic, GMs and players take it as gospel, no matter how much stress the designers place on 'make it your own game'. Now, with systems such as combat, where the process of fighting is extremely well understood, its easier to provide concrete rules with minimal options (although we do offer some in the combat section) than it is with magic. Magic is fictitious and modelled in myriad different ways throughout fantasy fiction, film and television. GMs and players frequently want to emulate things they've seen or read that have captured their imagination - lever that 'cool' factor into their games. In previous editions of RQ magic has really been geared towards emulating Glorantha, even in Avalon Hill's Mythic Europe setting, and that has constrained and frustrated GMs and players' abilities to introduce, say, the incredible mystical feats of 'Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon' or even the power warrens of the Malazan novels.

Yet we know GMs and players don't always want to play in Glorantha or a Gloranthan analog - some actively dislike Glorantha but love the RQ rules. So we set out to provide a framework that would work *with* the reader's imagination rather than stymie or constrict it by stipulating precisely how, for instance, Magic Points are regained and what rate.

In fact, this approach actually serves Glorantha. Think of the Lunar Empire's reliance on the phases of the Red Moon and the extent of the Glowline. Under the old rules you'd need to think around the concepts of Magic Point generation and recovery and build new mechanisms to handle how the Red Moon influences magic. Now, in the core rules, the tools you need to model that are laid out, but without being totally prescriptive.

As Pete says, there's 'no one size fits all'. The most frequent questions we deal with are those that want to know how to bend a rule to a fit a certain set of circumstances, campaign style or exception. Our approach with RQ6 was to make answering those questions easier - and hopefully reduce their need in the first place.

SA: Have you heard of anyone doing anything with the new game system that's surprised you? Other than Star Wars, that is!

LW: New Newport's D101 games have applied for a RuneQuest Gateway license. This gives official endorsement to compatible products and Newt has two or three RQ Gateway titles in production. Another fan has also contacted me about the Gateway and described quite a cool, unique fantasy setting that is quite different to the many settings out there. I'm looking forward to seeing all these Gateway products - and to welcoming more publishers and writers into the RQ family.

SA: Pete mentioned that there were a few more rules refinements that you wanted to make as you moved from MRQII to RQ6. We've already talked about the mystical magic system and the gamekit style magic. What other revisions in RQ6 do you think were particularly important (or particularly successful)?

LW: The game has countless tweaks and refinements. Some are more obvious than others, but just about every aspect of the system came in for some attention.

I think the two most important revisions, after what we we've done with magic, come in the combat section and character generation.

Combat needed some attention regarding the Special Effects or Combat Manoeuvres. Some required adjustment and tweaking, and there were some new ones, such as Ward Location and Compel Surrender. I think these, despite being relatively minor changes, have enhanced the options available in combat by a very large degree and made combat much more fun.

In character creation, integrating Passions has been very popular and is, I think, one of my favourite elements of the game. I originally created the Passions system for Mongoose's Elric; Pete added them to Wraith Recon, and refined their applicability, and so it seemed natural to add them to RQ6. We've found that, being quite a simple addition, they have a profound impact on roleplaying and driving both characters and story. Our personal playtest campaign has been defined by the use and effect of Passions more than any other mechanic, for example. Feedback we've had shows that others have the same experience.

PN: In addition to those already illustrated by Loz, the other major changes were the inclusion of the long languishing animism rules and a comprehensive guide to running creature encounters.

The very basic Spirit Magic rules introduced in MRQII were actually a seriously chopped down version of the Animism rules created for the Gwenthia project. My basic concept was to change the sadly colourless 'mechanistic' view of spirits as providers of spells or Magic Points, into something more vibrant, an ecology of spirits which were themselves the living incarnation of a magical process. Something which more suited the myriad of animistic traditions we have in the real world.

With RQ6 we finally had the chance to include the full rules, showing exactly what they are capable of, although again, their 'gamekit' nature may intimidate a few Game Masters until they actually design their own traditions and start to use them in play.

The creatures chapter has been greatly expanded to give sound advice on how to create their own monsters or races, and more importantly, how to stage combat encounters against non-sapient species. It always surprises me how unimaginatively most creatures are used in roleplaying games, simply running up to player characters to be butchered. To fix this we have added a comprehensive guide, based heavily on real world animal behaviour, showing how to make even a lone wolf, a feared and respected opponent.

SA: Is there anything else that people should know about RQ6?

LW: I think we've covered the rules elements quite comprehensively, so let me talk about something more salesy. We are enlisting in the Bits and Mortar program, so anyone who buys a copy from a FLGS also enrolled can get the PDF for free. But, in the interim, we will happily swing a free PDF to them. All you need to do is get in touch with us by email and we'll discuss how we do that.

SA: What do you have planned for the near future of RuneQuest now that the main rules are out?

LW: Right now we have 'Monster Island' (which I'll let Pete talk about) and 'Book of Quests' in production. 'Quests' is 7 loosely linked Sword and Sorcery adventures with a common background setting (The Realm). The idea is that you can use the background provided or just slot the adventures into your ongoing campaign. Some of the scenarios would be good Second Age Glorantha material, I think, and others are very Moorcockian.

Next year we'll be working on Mythics Greece and Briton, and our first licensed setting book. The latter is based on a highly acclaimed graphic novel series and we'll be introducing some unique new rules to facilitate play in the setting. There'll be some great stuff and great art in there. We'll be announcing the title of this book towards the end of the year.

The Mythics books will be historically-based-with-a-fantasy-twist settings for two of our favourite eras: Classical Greece and Dark Ages Britain. We've wanted to do these books for quite a while, and RQ6 gives us the opportunity to finally work on them.

PN: Nothing more to add except that Monster Island is a combined bestiary and sandbox setting. It will be similar in structure to Griffin Mountain, but set on an isolated mountainous island with a Howardian and Clark Ashton Smith flavour. Think exotically alien cultures, overgrown ruined cities, strange gateways from which weird monsters migrate, giant kaiju worshipped by reptilian natives, and ancient brooding sorceries.

Thus Monster Island shall be a showcase of just how imaginatively the core RuneQuest 6 rules can be applied.