Politically Incorrect Games is a young game company that got started in the PDF market and has since expanded to several different product lines including Iron Gauntlets, Active Exploits Diceless Roleplaying, Coyote Trail, and Disposable Heroes. Recently PIG has picked up the rights to Story Engine and Maelstrom Storytelling as well. This interview with owner Brett M. Bernstein was conducted by Shannon Appelcline.

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SA: There's no doubt that 2003 and 2004 were hard years for the industry, with D&D 3.5 causing a d20 crash and retailers thus growing more reluctant to carry small-press products. And yet that's exactly when Politically Incorrect Games got going. Why that particular timing?

BB: No particular timing. That's just the time that the RPG PDF market really took off. There weren't many PDF publishers at the time--Microtactix, BTRC, 0one Games, Deep7, and RPGObjects were the big ones. We all grew even larger since then, obviously going in different directions. PIG dabbled in small, direct-sales print runs at the time, and this kept our expenses down to a minimum as we didn't have to divert lots of money to large print runs heading for questionable distribution.

PIG is not exactly a mainstream publisher, but that also means that our unorthodox model of PDF titles, free upgrades, direct sales, and innovations like Active Exploits Diceless Roleplaying and Disposable Heroes paper minis don't require the same costs associated with retail, providing very reasonable prices. Continuing with this unorthodoxy, we now even print most of our titles on-demand and ship them to customers with our in-house PDFinPrint service.

It also seems that the same problems with retail back then still exist. I don't have the necessary data, however, to determine the degree.

SA: Where do you think PDFs fit into the RPG industry? Is PDF/POD going to be the ultimate future for everyone except maybe Wizards, will it just be the smaller presses who use it as their primary distribution method, or do you foresee something else in the future?

BB: I see PDFs as the "direct to video" market. It's not an indication of quality, rather one of investment. We all know that it is much cheaper to publish a PDF than a 300-page, full-color hardcover. If marketed well, people always buy something that is convenient (immediately downloadable), affordable, and/or interesting. In my opinion (and I must stress that I am in no way an expert or even close to being an expert), most small press are forced to maintain a limited production method in some way or another. This could be digital printing (POD) or lower budgets for artwork and other commissioned content. Those who maintain large budgets must sell all their books to make any money which means a lot of advertising unless they are one of the established "big guys."

There is a serious problem with the current distribution system. I'm not claiming that it is broken as many others do, because it is merely a standard industry practice. But it simply does not work well for an industry that is mostly small press. I keep hearing advice from all over the place, typically on industry lists. New publishers are told not to do a traditional print run because they will never get rid of a few thousand books in this climate. Others say that only licensed properties sell. Still others seem to shy away from distribution in favor of direct sales. I think as digital printing costs come down even more, we will see a lot more publishers utilizing that method.

Printed books are obviously not going away, but equally, I see PDFs rapidly becoming a new medium that can perhaps someday compete with real books, especially when larger or better-known publishers join the action -- Green Ronin, FanPro, West End Games, Iron Crown Enterprises. Even Wizards of the Coast has gone PDF with their old titles and some new ones, although the pricing is rather restricting on the newer titles. Green Ronin, in particular, has done a fabulous job of releasing PDF titles. I have much respect for their ability to release quality printed books as well as PDFs with all the capabilities that PDFs afford -- free revision upgrades and the like.

Maybe fifty years from now, PDFs will have guided us to new, affordable book-making systems, so that no book store even has a physical inventory, or at the very least, just one copy for browsing. Upon purchase, they print and bind the book in a newfangled machine and that's it. I'm dreaming, but who knows what the future holds for PDFs and traditional books.

SA: Your description of PDF bookstores is almost exactly what I remember Lightning Press' initial marketing pitch being. There's questions of economics of scale and deployment cost that don't yet seem answerable, but I'd have to guess that eventually that's how books will be sold.

Do you foresee any way for the PDF market to grow beyond its "direct to video" status without these PDF-ready booksellers?

BB: Maybe not for ten or twenty years when everyone has PDAs that make reading books convenient.

For now, though, there is too much resistance to PDF because most people need that sense of paying for something tangible like a book, but more importantly, it's hard to browse a PDF online to see whether or not the content is interesting and well done. Sure, PDF publishers can offer demo downloads and images of sample pages, but there is nothing like going into your local game shop and flipping through different books to find the one you want. I have plans to provide alternate methods for finding products on the PIG website so that one can experience that feeling as closely as possible, but it will be some time before it's ready. I'd really like to reproduce that feeling of the FLGS on our website, but it's a tough goal to reach.

Another thing is the big, beautiful, full-color games. While you can easily make a PDF in that manner, who is going to be able to print it out in full color without spending a fortune? No, retail excels in that aspect, but while unlikely, it may be possible for games with black & white interiors to come close to retail figures without the need for PDAs.

SA: Ironically, color printing wasn't even an issue for RPGs 10 or 15 years ago, so maybe PDFs will be able to make that same advance as time goes by.

BB: Obviously, color printing is very simple to do with PDFs if you have a color printer, but yeah, it's not going to be worth printing out all those pages. Color laser printers are very affordable these days, but their consumables are not, often costing more than the printer itself. And inkjets just don't have the endurance as their ink tanks are very small. I don't see the casual color printing of PDFs going to be mainstream any time soon. In my opinion, the one true prospect may be the color wax printers that Xerox offers. The wax ink is relatively inexpensive after an initial buy-in of the printer itself, but I have even seen them less than 00. Unlike laser printers, there are few moving parts in these machines, so this may be the key to affordable PDF printing in future. Only time will tell.

SA: One last PDF question. You talked a bit about unorthodox PDFs, and that has to include your Disposable Heroes, which I've heard allow per-customer customization. What more can you tell me about them?

BB: I'm always looking for new ways to take advantage of the PDF format, and the idea of being able to download paper miniatures is a good one, but I found them limited. What if you wanted a whole army of just one figure? That would mean printing out duplicate pages for multiple copies of just that one figure - that's a real waste of ink and toner. That's what sparked the idea.

I began designing a system that would let me populate a single page with duplicates of that one figure, or even just choosing which figures go on that page. Then I added support for both color and black and white, and then added the ability to put labels and progressive numbers on the figures. This eventually became our Disposable Heroes customizable system. We also just recently added the ability to download 1" flat-counters in addition to stand-up figures of the same sets. We strived to make this the most flexible brand of downloadable paper minis you can find - the next generation of PDF minis.

We're constantly expanding the number of sets available, from fantasy and pulp to official Cyberpunk(tm) and HARP(tm) minis. We're not just stopping there with Disposable Heroes. There are new features in the works, and new sets to take advantage of them. For example, double-sized monsters and fantasy mecha are in the queue - these figures are twice the size of normal ones, since they are, well, bigger entities. Other unique sets are also planned, but I probably shouldn't mention them until it's time.

I think the best way to sum up Disposable Heroes is this: Paper minis are a great option to spending a lot of money on metal/plastic miniatures, but with features such as being able to make armies very easily, they take on additional value. For a mere , you can line a whole sheet with Orcs (or any of the other 29 figures in the set), for example, and easily pit them against your players or their hordes.

SA: So let's move on to some of your actual games.What do you see as the focus of your company, beyond PDF technology?

BB: Affordable, entertaining, and unencumbering games is the primary focus. Not only do I want people to be able to buy a book without feeling like they spent a fortune, but also be able to really begin playing the same day. Our primary rules systems, and there are three that have different functions but are mostly interchangeable (Impresa - d10, genreDiversion i - 2d6, and Active Exploits Diceless), don't require a lot of page-flipping and re-reading. They work well described in the least amount of pages as possible.

Beyond that, though, the games are made to be tinkered with - I want people to customize them to their own needs. That's why Iron Gauntlets screams for you to make up your own races, gimmicks, and magical powers and why Active Exploits Diceless includes such a diverse range of customizable options as a universal system. And for the most part, you can drag elements from one of our core systems to another.

In the end, the focus is to cater to people have have moved on from their initial contact in the RPG world, typically Dungeons and Dragons, and who now seek to try other ways of roleplaying. These are the people who realize that giving the gamemaster the freedom to describe his story without being a slave to the dice makes for both a potentially better playing environment and a path to improvisational storytelling.

SA: Diceless gaming has always been a sort of tough gaming design frought with perils. Everway surely got a lot of good attention, but in the end people decided they needed brilliant gamemasters to make it work while Amber Diceless conversely caused lots of people to express concerns about gamemasters really railroading players and playing favorites with such a system. What have you done with Active Exploits to work around some of these issues?

BB: For one, Active Exploits is built to flow like a 'dice' system. It has abilities (attributes) and skills that characters must use together to get things done. Action is scene-based until events occur that require more focus--then it becomes turn-based. Players choose how much effort their characters are willing to expend on a task.

It is true that the gamemaster then decides the outcome based on a series of difficulties and characters' effort and training, but this is a good thing. The gamemaster sets the tone and must improvise to continue to develop the story based on the character's actions.

It is people who are generally committed to playing game like Dungeons and Dragons, in which die-rolling is at an excess, that have trouble with furthering the story. But once they realize the level of freedom and the fact that gaming is about having fun rather than screwing over the players, they learn to build a fascinating story on the players' decisions rather than penalizing them. This is, of course, true of just about any diceless or rules-light game, but because Active Exploits includes options such as character convictions and threads (designed for internal conflict and group interaction respectively), it often sinks in that a different mindset is needed--players then focus on their characters' actions rather than gaining the most XP or finding the most treasure.

There are also different options that let players customize the system to their needs. For example, skills can be dropped in favor of fields of expertise, allowing them to be experts in general areas rather than specific skills. Tasks can be made more detailed by way of conditions that modify the difficulty based on the situation, and risks make it possible for tasks to result in harm to anyone who attempts them. It is this level of customization that works towards making the gamemaster feel more comfortable with the system by adjusting the detail to closer match that which he is most familiar when playing regular 'dice' games.

Finally, Active Exploits can be played with six-sided dice as an option. But that's not all when it comes to dice. Characters can easily be moved to our 2d6 system (genreDiversion i) or d10 system (Impresa), and vice versa (these three systems make up our core foundation). These three systems are virtually interchangeable, so if you want to adjust your playing style to use 2d6, for example, that's not too difficult. In fact, our Special Edition Active Exploits Softcover includes all three systems--the two dice systems merely build upon the diceless mechanics. How much more could one ask for? If you're having trouble getting the hang of the diceless mechanics, simply choose a 'dice' system and continue the story, switching back as you feel more comfortable.

I have also just secured the rights to Story Engine (and Maelstrom Storytelling), formerly published by Hubris Games. This system shares many similarities with Active Exploits, but does so in a very different manner. It is scene-based and also utilizes a form of resource management as is common with so many diceless games, but it can be played either with or without dice.

I get feedback on Story Engine which is completely opposite to that of Active Exploits -- Story Engine seems to be a more desirable start in roleplaying for those with no experience, because it does not worry about preconceived notions left over from the wargame-rooted systems that have become the norm (turn-based actions and individual performance). This is understandable since Active Exploits derives its roots from traditional dice systems, requiring turn-based action for focused detail, while Story Engine was built from the ground up for scene-based and storytelling mechanics.

This concept of turn versus scene is like a mirror image--you have one style of play on Side A and a different style on Side B. Both excel at certain things and try to accomplish the same goals. I can't comment on future development of Story Engine yet, but I will say that it is destined to team up with our core systems. My goal is to provide the option of both scene and turn-based styles of play, so that everyone (OK, not everyone, but as many as possible) is happy. Perhaps a lofty goal, but not impossible.

As an aside, both Story Engine and Maelstrom are now available once again in PDF format. I know a lot of people have been trying to get their hands on copies for many years, and now they can.

SA: So why two different dice systems, genreDiversion and Impresa? In an era when so many companies are developing monolithic game systems, having two seems to be going against the flow, especially for a small company which has more limited resources to develop them.

BB: Technically, genreDiversion i and Impresa are the same system--they are just used differently and for different types of gamers. genreDiversion i focuses on simplicity, requiring only 2d6 rolls for tasks (and multiple d6 for damage assessment). It doesn't focus on detail, such as how fast or far someone can run. The system is there to facilitate play, but not to the extent of governing specific details.

Impresa is a scalable system with ratings that can stand for actual detail, such as running distance. Its rating system can go beyond that of genreDiversion i because it uses multiple d10s rather than a fixed statistic, and levels of success can also be tracked by way of overkill (counting successes). For example, some of the creatures in Iron Gauntlets can have ability ratings twice as high as in genreDiversion. Impresa goes farther -- it also has more options, such as special abilities, ability and skill flairs (refined abilities and skills), character convictions (as in Active Exploits), etc.

Right now, Impresa is only used in our Iron Gauntlets game, but I am working on The Colonies 2.0 and other titles that will explore aspects of Impresa's flexibility not yet seen. Many options, such as skill flairs and convictions will also be presented in the upcoming Iron Gauntlets Companion. We've had a number of setbacks, so development of a universal set of customizable rules for Impresa has been put on the back-burner while we first update older titles like The Colonies and expand current lines such as Iron Gauntlets.

Back to my original statement that the two systems are the same. You can use characters from one system in the other without much hassle. You can pretty much take a special ability or gimmick from Impresa and use it with genreDiversion i. For the most part, you'll just have to change extra dice to difficulty levels on a 1:1 basis and halve damage. This is simple and can be done on the fly. Rather than calling them different, a more accurate statement would be that genreDiversion i is a subset of Impresa.

SA: A lot of industry seems to moving toward a frontlist only mentality (out of necessity due to retail decisions), yet you're talking about revising some of your early games. Is this just because they're core books that have to stay in print, or is the PDF market remaining friendlier toward backlist?

BB: Both, really. But revised editions, in any case, don't necessarily suffer from backlist issues--that's why there are 4 editions of Vampire and Shadowrun. These have reinvigorated the product lines.

The remaining classic genreDiversion mini-games fill a niche (80's cops, horror, and apocalypse), so they are somewhat important. Updating them means a better rounded GDi line, as well as more compatible products. The Colonies 2.0 will specifically be a core book like Iron Gauntlets, and also a springboard for supplements and alternate settings. It will eventually have to deal with the frontlist/backlist mentality, however, as it enters retail when an expanded edition is completed down the road.

PDF allows me to ignore "backlist" status. Nothing has to go "out of print" with PDFs. If I choose not to reprint a softcover, for example, I can continue to sell it as a PDF, and I don't have to worry about how many copies distributors and retailers order. They go direct to the customer, so it is they who get to make the decision whether to buy and make up their own minds about what frontlist/backlist means to them. This is better in a way, because it places the decision in the hands of the consumer rather than businessmen seeking to carry only the latest and greatest money-makers. Unfortunately, while the PDF market has grown considerably in the past few years, it has yet to come anywhere near the standard retail market.

SA: Having gone from PDFs to your game systems and back, I suppose that brings us full circle on Politically Incorrect Games. Thanks very much for your time, Brett!

BB: And thank you, Shannon, for taking an interest in PIG and making me think about how I really feel about the questions asked.

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For more information on PiG, lookup Politically Incorrect Games in the RPGnet Gaming Index.